Report 1174
Report #1174 Skillset: Skill: Curiomasks Org: Paladins Status: Completed Jun 2013 Furies' Decision: Solution 2. Problem: Curio masks: The fact that you now sometimes have rooms full of masked people is not so much a mechanical as an aesthetical pet peeve of mine with these masks. It seems odd that Lusternia suddenly turned into a realm of masked people. The same can be said for other artifacts, like the pig nose, but this is the most blatantly apparent one so far. The fact that the masks don't drop on aggressive actions or being attacked compounds to the issue and adds a more combat-oriented aspect to it. SCENT and WHO HERE alleviate the effect, but I still think the masks should have little to no impact on combat at all. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Make the masking effect of curio masks become inactive for X minutes if their wearer takes an aggressive action or gets attacked. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Make the masking effect of curio masks drop whenever their wearer is unable to be masochistic. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Solution 1, but with the exception of attacking denizens (if such an exception can be made). Player Comments: ---on 5/2 @ 20:10 writes: This has less impact on combat than having titles that include the name of well known combatants or illusions that reference people that are not there. You either know who you are fighting or you don't. Using look to find your next target has always been crazy spammy in group fights anyway so it is a bad habit to have. However, hollow reasons to change it do not exactly trump no real reason not to. ---on 5/2 @ 20:51 writes: Such titles are illegal and such illusions need to be put up first. Plus, in some outlier cases (scented indoors room, for example), you need to rely on squinting to see who's there. I'm rather doubtful the masks were introduced with such effects in mind. ---on 5/2 @ 20:52 writes: I mean skunked indoor rooms, not scented. ---on 5/2 @ 22:35 writes: ... why should they drop? They don't hide your actions (unlike marauder mask), they don't hide you from scries, they don't hide you from WHO HERE, they don't actually hide you from -anything at all-. Marauder masks drop because they do these things. I don't see any real compelling reason for curio masks that do nothing to fall. Anyone looking for targets really uses WHO HERE anyways, or other options in which the mask does not interfere. Mechanical corrections to pet peeves do not really seem necessary. ---on 5/2 @ 22:43 writes: They need to drop. They weren't supposed to be combat curios, as far as I can tell. ---on 5/2 @ 23:52 writes: Re-reading my comment it's not clear, I don't agree with the problem but I have nothing to counter it with. No objection. ---on 5/3 @ 02:09 writes: For most scenarios, you can use WHO HERE, but quite frankly, why should you have to use WHO HERE in each room you pass through that has people with masks in it (and people with masks abound already)? If masks weren't hiding anything at all, I wouldn't be posting this report. ---on 5/3 @ 12:47 writes: I agree. Combat-wise they have a bigger impact than I think they were meant to, since they make squinting so much less useful. Apart from that, as you said, it adds a really strange theme to Lusternia where everyone and their mother is a solstice dragon apparently. ---on 5/3 @ 13:48 writes: Just as a note, I'm fairly certain they were aware of the effects of the masks themselves. The squint argument doesn't really go anywhere because in order to fix it, you'd have to eliminate the masks completely. They would have no point if you were basing your argument on this. Also, I don't see why they're NOT supposed to impact combat. They are difficult curios to complete even with help. The other powers curios are certainly useful for combat. A free enchant you don't have to wear, dmp and boost to damage, and the ability to travel faster in certain environments PLUS a bix effect. While I'm sure there is a cosmetic aspect to these masks, I think there is also a valid combat use for them that wasn't unintended. That said, they are annoying so I understand the argument against them. ---on 5/3 @ 13:49 writes: Pardon, in the last line *valid combat use for them that was intended. ---on 5/3 @ 16:27 writes: I don't support this, I don't even own a mask but asking for a change based on 'it annoys me' isn't even close to good justification. The squint argument falls short (easy enough to code re-wearing the mask when having a faceoff, as the solutions don't prevent that). I agree it's a combat advantage not to show up on 'look' but it's not really that big of a deal. No support of either solution. ---on 5/3 @ 16:34 writes: I support this report. ---on 5/3 @ 16:45 writes: Synkarin: The removing/rewearing workaround is mostly preventable by making the mask effect inactive when a person is unable to be masochistic. ---on 5/3 @ 17:32 writes: Your masochism effect isn't listed as a solution, just when the wearer attacks or the wearer is attacked causes the mask to drop. That's really irrelevant because faceoffs still last long enough for masochism to kick back in, allowing someone to rewear it. There are plenty of options to see who is in the room and who is in the area, because the masks only change the 'look' appearance and nothing else. It's easy enough to guess who is who and circumvent the mask. Everyone deals with this and I haven't really seen anyone win or lose because they had the 'mask advantage.' I don't really see a need, or the justification for this change to go through. ---on 5/4 @ 02:31 writes: I don't think it's necessary, but I don't think it's objectionable either. ---on 5/4 @ 03:31 writes: I have no problem with any of these proposals. ---on 5/4 @ 16:12 writes: I just don't understand the point here. If it drops when you take an aggressive action, you can't even use it for PvE (all aggressive actions are created equally). Fight or hunt anything and down it goes, which just ruins the entire point of having the things in the first place. None of the solutions here will do a single thing for the stated 'problem' (can't see who it is when you squint), because the mask can always be re-worn in such a situation. So, you change -nothing- as far as combat utility goes, but you nerf it for general use and enjoyment. ---on 5/4 @ 17:02 writes: Solutions adjusted. ---on 5/8 @ 03:58 writes: I don't understand the assertion that the point of these things is for bashing. That's a pretty big leap. Solution 2 seems the most effective. ---on 5/8 @ 11:02 writes: Solution #2 works for me. ---on 5/8 @ 14:28 writes: I don't understand the assertion that these are a combat hinderance. As pointed out, and unrefuted, during standoffs, nothing is preventing you from just re- wearing the mask and shielding after the 'masochism' period wears off. You can still scent/scan/who here to find people, in your room or adjacently. I still don't support any solutions, I don't own a mask currently, and plenty people on both 'sides' wear these masks. ---on 5/8 @ 16:39 writes: I don't think it has been mentioned but stoles should be included as they basically have the same function and I don't know of any reason they should be exempt. Especially since they are sold and don't have to be put together. ---on 5/10 @ 22:10 writes: All solutions supported. ---on 5/22 @ 19:45 writes: I'm not really sure this change is needed, particularly as the justification for it isn't fantastic. As Xenthos has pointed out, the masks don't have the same potential as a marauders mask and whilst a large room of them can be annoying there are plenty of ways to bypass this annoyance factor. ---on 6/10 @ 16:55 writes: Supporting solution #2 ---on 6/11 @ 03:58 writes: I don't think there is too much of a reason for this report, all players have access to the mask as much as any other artifact, and I feel that only hiding the person from squinting and looking is a fair advantage for its cost. SCENT and WHO HERE still work, in addition to scry and other detection methods. It is also easy to see that the person is there, via seeing the masked person, for purposes of assessing the strength of a skunked room. I don't really support any solution here, but of them all, I think #2 would be the fairest. Not supported. ---on 6/17 @ 02:12 writes: One issue that does need to be resolved in regards to curio masks is blocking of certain room messages in regards to players. One example being that they block the message that shows when someone is in a pit. ---on 6/20 @ 16:54 writes: Talking with Ixion, he brought up that this is just one more thing that adds into the complexity of combat for people trying to get into it. It's just another added hassle of learning/coding the use who here or the new room.players gmcp message, or buying a dingbat snout to counteract. That being said, I agree, it's an unnecessary addition to combat, and with that in mind, I support this overall. It is something you can work around, which is easy for those of us that have been doing combat for ages, it's not easy for those just getting into combat.